Sebastian (Seb) Coe, UK record 800m 1978

25 Comments

1. 

   athleticscoach2012 on 2013-04-12 at 12:13 AM

   but if you do 20 x 400m or 5 x 1000m now its not going to make a big (if any!) difference. If you train hard with a good group that matters more than the specifics of individual workouts. So trust your coach as it looks like your times? are progressing. In the race take it easy in the early stages as the pace will feel slow for you. Better to do a reasonable race than blow up. Then you have set a marker for your next one. Over distance race will do you good as a middle distance guy. Good luck

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2. 

   athleticscoach2012 on 2013-04-12 at 1:00 AM

   Well firstly a coach who knows you is going to give better? advise than any person remotely. Next all workouts will improve you running. If you are doing 400m’s for 5km you need short recoveries. I would say longer reps are better for 5km pace, but as an example you could start on 20 x 400m off 90 sec then over time progress to 10 x 800m off 2 mins then once ready 5 x 1000m off 2:30. Now if your coach had you doing just 10 x 400m you might question it (unless for mile pace training) ….

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3. 

   7agneskickingbird7 on 2013-04-12 at 1:59 AM

   BTW, I am more of a 800m-1500m guy who dabbles in the 400 and rarely runs over? 1500m.

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4. 

   7agneskickingbird7 on 2013-04-12 at 2:34 AM

   Thank you for the encouragement. One question though. I will be running my first ever 5000m on June 4th and my university coach is big on us doing tons of 400’s (20+). Would doing a lot of 400’s help for a 5000 or would 800’s? and 1000’s be more beneficial. Appreciate any advice,
   Thanks,
   Alex

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5. 

   7agneskickingbird7 on 2013-04-12 at 3:31 AM

   Of course there are those that will argue that the drop in times is due to inadequate pacemaking, but I think that? the athletes today know that they can’t split 1:50 in a 1500m and continue on. Or if you are talking to Renato Canova he will tell you that every middle distance wr is clean and say you are talking about things you know nothing about. I personally think he is either naive to the max or is lying through his teeth and knows the records are dirty but wants to make the sport look clean.

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6. 

   deano27671 on 2013-04-12 at 4:15 AM

   I totally agree. I have a very difficult time believing any of the records from 1500 to 10k were all achieved through “natural talent” alone. The clincher for me is that none of the current crop of top athletes have come remotely near those times since the new EPO test (the previous one from 2000 was useless) came out in 2006. 3:29 (3 secs + from WR) hasn’t been broken, 3:46 (3.0+) for Mile, 4:50 (6.0+) for? 2k, 7:25 for 3k (5.0 sec), &12:48 (11.0+) for 5k.

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7. 

   athleticscoach2012 on 2013-04-12 at 4:23 AM

   BTW some good times you got there kicking bird. Keep up the training, off 53 you can run 1:53/4 and sub 4 1500m and are young enough to then impove again on those times. Keep up the running and good? luck!

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8. 

   athleticscoach2012 on 2013-04-12 at 5:21 AM

   4/5 secs!?

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9. 

   athleticscoach2012 on 2013-04-12 at 5:57 AM

   .. while the long distance champions and WR have not failed tests. While that continues we can at least hope they are clean. Last example look at Bedford running 27:30 if he were around today he would at least be running 27:00. Over 400m he is 45 secs down on the top EA’s. Providing you have a light build you are carrying that speed advantage on every lap multiplied. eg Bedford 54 KB 49 who is going to feel easier at 60 sec laps. Or? take Coe/Ovett against Walker over 400m same thing. Cheers

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10. 

    athleticscoach2012 on 2013-04-12 at 6:32 AM

    look at Dave Moocroft 30 years ago. No pacemaker, slower track, not born at altitude- maybe a few wks training? here and there, training also moved on slightly. EPO is more about increasing your O2 uptake than recovery. Steroids help women more because thay lack strength and brother beats sister may help guys a bit but bulk is slowing. They need to change the ban to 4 yrs min. in all sports by the way its a joke at the moment. Look at all the WR & champion sprinters busted ….

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11. 

    athleticscoach2012 on 2013-04-12 at 6:42 AM

    That’s me. Most top athletes train at altitude but its hard to subsitute being born there. A lot of people say its genetetics with East African but I don’t think ths is the case as ones with their countrymen with same genes but born away from rift valley. Mor/SPA ahtletes do train at altitude but how long do they spend there? Check the iaaf wiki doping list virtually no Ethiopians of course some would get lucky on tests but not all. Some Kenyans have been? done but lower level ones. On 12:37..

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12. 

    7agneskickingbird7 on 2013-04-12 at 7:02 AM

    Are you ukathleticscoach on letsrun? I think some steroids could help one recover from tough workouts faster but peds like hgh and epo/cera do it better. While training at altitude can definately help an individual, I think that some athletes that are from altitude have used epo and whatnot.? I have an incredibly tough time believing that 12:37 and 26:17 were done totally naturally. If I’m not mistaken, I also believe that some Moroccan and Spanish athletes have trained at altitude. Cheers

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13. 

    athleticscoach2012 on 2013-04-12 at 7:37 AM

    Steroids don’t do much for? a male distance running. Blood doping has a limited effect its very hard to trace so there would be no point using EPO if it were that good. Either can be replaced by being born at or training for years at altitude which is why those athletes from lower countries get done more

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14. 

    7agneskickingbird7 on 2013-04-12 at 8:35 AM

    I don’t think that all 80’s athletes were dirty. I think the British trio were clean, but won’t say for certain. I know Ventolin thinks Coe blood doped, but athletes that? were blood doping then were from countries that pretty much institutionalized that practice, Finland Italy etc, so I think it’s unlikely concerning Coe.
    I’m pretty sure that steroids weren’t around though in high schools back in 64 or 65. I’d like to think that Ryun was clean, but now you’ve got me thinking:-)

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15. 

    deano27671 on 2013-04-12 at 8:53 AM

    I just think it’s rich when certain Ryun fans on LetsRun (I think you know who I mean?) make claims that 80’s athletes were dirty, even though UK athletes were randomly tested from the early 80s and there was automatic testing in major champs and for WR performances, while no one brings up the fact that steroids were around in the 60’s and they weren’t even tested for! That generation of athletes are deemed “beyond reproach” for some reason. There are a? lot of hypocrites out there.

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16. 

    deano27671 on 2013-04-12 at 9:43 AM

    Hi Alex! To be honest, I? really don’t know! I wouldn’t have thought Snell did, but I’m a bit more suspicious of US athletes going through the collegiate system in the 60’s. If there was going to be experimentation with such things at that time, I’d say it’s more likely to have been there.

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17. 

    7agneskickingbird7 on 2013-04-12 at 10:27 AM

    I actually didn’t realize that steroids were legal back in the 60’s. Do you think? that athletes like Snell or Ryun were on something?

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18. 

    deano27671 on 2013-04-12 at 10:44 AM

    This isn’t as long as Snell (60-64), competing before him, or Coe (79-86) or Ovett (77-83), despite the fact Ryun was still competing until 1972. Having said all this, IMO, Ryun achieved enough in those 2 brilliant seasons of 66 & 67 to warrant 4th on the all? time list of great m-distance athletes. He can’t be above Coe, Snell or Ovett because he, unlike them, didn’t win an Olympic gold.

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19. 

    deano27671 on 2013-04-12 at 11:06 AM

    Moreover, if you’re going to include bi-annual world titles into the equation of an athlete’s greatness, then? competitions like Europa & World Cup, plus Commonwealth must also be given equal weight for those athletes at their peak prior to 1991. Back to Ryun. He had a 3 year window (66-68) where he was at the very top of the ranking lists, and even in 68 he was below what he had been, but still good enough for Olympic silver.

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20. 

    deano27671 on 2013-04-12 at 11:16 AM

    The point you made about Ryun only competing in the Olym is a valid one & the reason why I mainly look at Olym performance & WR when comparing athletes from different eras. E.g. People cite the fact Kipketer won 3 World titles to make him? the GOAT at 800m. This is unfair, as neither Coe nor Snell had the opportunity to run in bi-annual World Championships. In terms of their 800 record in the Olympics, Snell comes out on top with 2 gold, then Coe (2 silvers) & finally Kip with silver & bronze.

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21. 

    deano27671 on 2013-04-12 at 12:07 PM

    I hear what you are saying, but in actuality Ryun competed in 3 Olympics, more than Coe, who was only at 2. Ryun was an international from 64 to 72, so he did have a fairly lengthy career. It’s also worth? noting that there was no money in the sport when Ovett & Coe started running for their country in the mid 70’s. It was only in 82 that athletes received trust funds.

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22. 

    7agneskickingbird7 on 2013-04-12 at 12:34 PM

    I would still rank him the 4th or 5th best mid d man ever, but I feel that had he had more international comps to compete in, like Elliott and Snell, his resume would be more impressive. But we have to go with his actual resume. Coe and Snell are the? two clear leaders, then Ovett, Cram, Ryun and Elliott follow.
    Cheers
    Alex

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23. 

    7agneskickingbird7 on 2013-04-12 at 12:53 PM

    On a very recent thread on Letsrun about Ryun being the best middle d man in history, I noticed that when you were comparing Ryun to others, you compared each athletes longevity. I agreed with everything else, but I? think that Coe or Ovett would not have had long careers had they been competing in the 60’s in the U.S where you made $0 for running. That and the fact that others at the time like Snell and Elliott had Commonwealths to compete in. Ryun only had the Olympics to compete in

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24. 

    deano27671 on 2013-04-12 at 1:31 PM

    Not at all. Your scenario is probably the most plausible, but I think Coe’s over distance ability was as good as Ovett’s. Ovett may have been a bit too wily for Coe in such a race,? but after Prague Coe seemed to hit some very good form and would have been out for revenge. Ovett probably still wins that night, but it would have been close.

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25. 

    7agneskickingbird7 on 2013-04-12 at 1:34 PM

    I hope you don’t think I was criticizing Coe’s endurance at all. Not so. I just think that he wouldn’t have won that 2 mile. I am well aware of some of the longer races he ran on road, one of which I think was a 7.5 km one at something like 13:46ish pace. I have no doubt that had? he been in his 81 or 84 form he would’ve been right with Rono and Ovett with 200m to go and would probably outkick them in the home straight.

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